Henry Rollins was an angry young man. But not any more.
"Now I'm an angry old man," laughs the punk rock icon, who turns 50 on Feb. 13. "And the older I get, the madder I get.
"I'm mad at The Man. I'm mad at elitism. I'm mad at my country's foreign policy. I'm mad at that which makes a woman get shot in the head on a streetcorner in Tucson. Global climate change and people's resistance to it -- these things make me mad. Ever since I was young, I've been a fairly furious kind of person -- always ticked-off. I'm just one of those people."
Simmering outrage (and tattoos) aside, however, Rollins really is a changed man.
Half a lifetime ago, at the mic of L.A. hardcore pioneers Black Flag, the muscular D.C. native was one of the most intimidating frontmen in rock, staring down fans with a homicidal glare -- trust me, I've been on the receiving end -- while barking out propulsive punk anthems such as My War and Rise Above.
When he wasn't living in the van on the road, he slept under a desk in a shed behind the home of guitarist Greg Ginn's parents.
Since Black Flag's 1986 breakup, Rollins' horizons and fortunes have expanded. He's a poet and author who runs a publishing house -- 2.13.61, his birthday. His grim, no-holds-barred 1994 memoir Get in the Van: On the Road With Black Flag won a spoken-word Grammy.
He has hosted his own talk show on IFC while amassing acting credits on film and TV, including a role as a white supremacist on Sons of Anarchy.
He hosts a radio show in Santa Monica and writes a column for L.A. Weekly.
His vast musical knowledge and quick wit have made him a go-to guy for filmmakers such as Don Letts, who interviewed him for the documentary Punk: Attitude, now on DVD.
He's a tireless human-rights activist and globetrotter. And while he has found solo musical success with his Rollins Band -- Liar and Low Self Opinion were MTV staples in the '90s -- he now tours only as a spoken-word performer. You can bet he doesn't bunk in anyone's yard.
As he prepared to celebrate his first half-century with -- what else?-- his latest spoken-word jaunt, Henry called up to explain where he got his work ethic, why he's probably done with music, and who he wants to be at 60.
I don't know if I should offer you congratulations or condolences on turning 50.
Well, whatever you see fit, of course. But to me, it's just the number that comes after 49 and before 51. I make fun of it -- "Where's my teeth?" and all that. I'm having fun with it. But it's not a big deal. It's just what happens if you live your life and don't get hit by a car -- or live in Baghdad and have democracy invade you.
Many of your peers are dead, MIA or running in place. You've not only survived but evolved. What is it about you -- a work ethic, ambition, boredom?
It's all of that. There's ambition, certainly. You need a cup of that in the soup. But for me it's resolve: "I'm going to do this work; it's going to hurt and it's going to take a while, but I'm going to get it done."
But I don't want to step on anybody's hands as I go up the ladder. I'd rather build my own ladder. I don't want what's yours; only what's mine. And it's a fear of boredom, a ravenous curiousity -- and a work ethic inspired by my parents, who are both work maniacs. My mother who's 80 is a voracious reader who still goes for the power walk. My dad is kind of a right-wing d-----bag, but work? All day, all night, all weekend, in his Brooks Brothers suit with a tie strangulating him.
Would you ever have imagined ending up where you are?
Absolutely not. Back in those days, you would have worn yourself out trying to convince me that I would be able to pay my own rent.
How do you feel about being cast as an icon?
I don't take it seriously. When someone says to me, "You're an icon," I always say, "An aging alternative icon to you, pal." I'm just a guy who was in some bands that get talked about.
What are your thoughts on Black Flag 25 years later?
It was a good band. I can say that without bragging. Not every record was good, but then, not even every Bob Dylan record is great. And Black Flag played some shows that, if you were at 'em, you were lucky. Because we were trying to leave it all on stage every night. We played with a burning intensity that eventually took its toll.
We all walk crooked from that experience. It was full commitment, making music in a time when that music didn't always get the most welcome reception.
You and Greg Ginn must get reunion-tour offers. Are you never tempted?
Well, Greg is Black Flag Inc. He wrote the music; it's his band in my opinion. Every once in a while people mistakenly think I'm the go-to guy and say, "Here's what we want to do." And I say, "You're talking to the wrong guy, you want to talk to Greg. And I don't have his phone number. And even if he says yes, I will say no. I'm not interested in retreading the past."
A lot of people say that until they get a cheque with enough zeros on it.
Yeah, but I get those cheques for other things.
Are you done with music, then?
Yeah, unless I can do something new and creative. Put it this way: I'd never do it for the money. My little experiment over the last few years has been to see if there's anything else to do. And I have found that I am now working seven days a week supplying the demand of everything not-music that is coming my way.
Do you miss music?
Every day. I miss being in a band and being onstage with a loud backdrop of fury coming through me. Having that vehicle and being able to swing that is great. It's like a theme park ride. Every now and then, I'll be onstage with some band at a benefit or something. And I go, "Yeah, I guess I can still do that." But I don't wanna be 50 and go out and play Low Self Opinion. Is it a good song? I think so. But doing that does not take any artistic risk. I am not here to denigrate any band, but I will mention Van Halen. I saw them a few years ago and it was very well done. But artistically, it's not daring. It's just about seeing if you can do that without your hairplugs falling out. I'm not making fun of them; it just is what it is. People want to hear the hits. To me, going out and doing that would just be depressing.
Is punk dead?
Well, it all ends up defaulting to rock 'n' roll after a while. Chuck Dukowski from Black Flag used to say that anytime anything in any genre of music happens, it is quickly subsumed by society -- tamed, made mediocre, defanged and declawed. He said it would happen to punk rock. And he called it.
Where do you see yourself at 60?
Hopefully, angry as hell and not taking it any more. Like George Carlin: Grey of hair, pissed as hell and still making sense. He's my guy for however many years I'm allowed to be out there. Just one man and a microphone. As much as I miss music, I like the idea of being alone out there onstage, just facing it.
Punks all grown up
Henry Rollins isn't the only punk who's getting up there. Here's how old some of his peers and predecessors are -- or would have been if they'd lived:
Jet Black (Stranglers), 72
Nico (Velvet Underground), 72*
Lou Reed, 68
Charlie Harper (UK Subs), 66
Debbie Harry (Blondie), 65
Patti Smith, 64
Lee Ving (Fear), 64
Iggy Pop, 63
Wayne Kramer (MC5), 62
Stiv Bators (Dead Boys), 61*
Richard Hell, 61
Johnny Ramone, 61*
Tommy Ramone, 61
Joey Ramone, 59*
Dee Dee Ramone, 59*
Joe Strummer (The Clash), 58*
Johnny Thunders (New York Dolls), 58*
Billy Idol (Generation X), 55
Captain Sensible (Damned), 55
Keith Morris (Circle Jerks), 55
John Lydon/ Johnny Rotten, 54
Joey S---head Keithley, 54
Sid Vicious, 53*
Jello Biafra (Dead Kennedys), 52
Darby Crash (Germs), 52*
*Deceased
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